MyFloridaCode.com

[Florida Code Talk] fire-damaged (in floodplain?)
FineR at gtlaw.com FineR at gtlaw.com
Thu Jan 20 18:03:07 EST 2011


[As I'm sure you know-- this is not intended to be legal advice]

While FEMA is an important factor, what really counts is the local
jurisdiction's floodplain management (or flood prevention) ordinance.
These ordinances are required in all communities that participate in the
NFIP-- and they must be approved by FEMA but there are some small
differences from community to community.   Start with the local
ordinance first.  If you have any questions of interpretation, go to
FEMA's Substantial Damage-Substantial Improvement Desk Reference that
you can find on the internet.  Keep in mind, however, that it is not
FEMA that administers and enforces these regulations.  It is the
community's floodplain manager (most commonly, the building official or
director) who enforces these requirements and the local ordinance. The
FEMA materials are great to help you understand the provisions of the
local ordinance and ways to comply but it is the local, not the federal,
that you ultimately are required to comply with.


Robert S.  Fine
Shareholder 
Greenberg Traurig, P.A.  | 333 Avenue of the Americas 
(333 S.E. 2nd Avenue)  | Miami, FL  33131
Tel 305.579.0826  | Fax 305.961.5826  
finer at gtlaw.com | www.gtlaw.com


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From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Boyko
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:41 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] fire-damaged (in floodplain?)

Group,

After Speaking with Bret Walley, I have located documents from FEMA,
regarding the 50% rule and Floodplain improvement. Here is the link:

 http://www.fema.gov/pdf/floodplain/nfip_sg_unit_8.pdf

Rachel Boyko
Assistant to Robert Koning
Administrator of ACICP


-----Original Message-----
From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of
codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:19 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 47

Send CodeTalk mailing list submissions to
	codetalk at myfloridacode.com

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How to deal w/ owners subs (Bob Koning)
   2. Re: fire-damaged (in floodplain?) (Bob Koning)
   3. Re: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 41 (Tim Lynch)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:57:51 -0500
From: "Bob Koning" <Bob at ContractorsInstitute.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] How to deal w/ owners subs
To: "Jo-Anne Peck" <pri at preservationresource.com>,
	<codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID:
	
<DF3E330A92E8DB46B82D104B79FC3BBF677BC5 at mailbox.hudson.koning.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

No, they would need to obtain their own permits. Make sure the work is
not done under your permit. I assume that the zoning and codes allow
such cottage - if you know different, you may be participating in and
illegal activity. Consult with your attorney.

 

 

Cordially,

 

R.J.Koning - Director

Contractors Institute

rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com

8301 Joliet Street

Hudson, Fl 34667

727-863-5147

 

 

 

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Jo-Anne Peck
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:45 AM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] How to deal w/ owners subs

 

Thank you so much for your input on the insurance question I posted last
week. Now I have another question for you all:

 

We are talking to a customer about installing a small outbuilding in her
back yard for use as a guest cottage. We gave a quote to provide the
building and have told her she would be responsible for installing the
plumbing and electrical. My questions is, do they still pull their
permits under ours even though they are not technically our subs? Are we
still somehow responsible for them even though they have a contract with
her? We would not include plumbing or electrical in the construction
drawings submitted for our permit.
- Jo-Anne Peck
  Preservation Resource, Inc./ Historic Shed
  www.preservationresource.com
  www.historicshed.com
  twitter.com/HistoricShed
  www.facebook.com/HistoricShed
 
"It's not good because it's old; it's old because it's good."

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:00:26 -0500
From: "Bob Koning" <Bob at ContractorsInstitute.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] fire-damaged (in floodplain?)
To: <rcquinn at earthlink.net>, <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID:
	
<DF3E330A92E8DB46B82D104B79FC3BBF677BC6 at mailbox.hudson.koning.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Rebecca, welcome to the group - and I know your BOAF postings and your
credentials - we are honored to have you participate!

 

 

Cordially,

 

R.J.Koning - Director

Contractors Institute

rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com

8301 Joliet Street

Hudson, Fl 34667

727-863-5147

 

 

 

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of
rcquinn at earthlink.net
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:45 AM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] fire-damaged (in floodplain?)

 

There was a recent post about a fire damaged building in Sarasota County
"that was damaged by fire, the fire damage is well over the 50% of the
county assessed value. Sarasota County."  The inquirer was concerned
that "by doing over 50% of the value the county will make me bring the
entire home up to the current building code."  It wasn't stated, but the
implication is that this building is in the mapped special flood hazard
area and thus subject to the County's flood damage reduction
requirements because the building has been substantially damaged.  The
definition of substantial damage is  "damage of any origin sustained by
a structure whereb! y the cost of restoring the structure to its
before-damaged condition would equal or exceed 50 percent of the market
value of the structure before the damage occurred." 

 

NOTE that the definition specifies the cost of restoring the structure
to it's pre-damage condition, so it doesn't matter how much work is
actually done (or even if it is done over time) -- the substantial
damage determination is made on the estimate of fully restoring the
building.  Note also that it is the market value of the building
(although the county's assessed value can be used, it should be adjusted
by the assessor to reflect market value).  For the latest guidance, see
FEMA's recently published FEMA P-758:  Substantial Improvement /
Substantial Damage Desk Reference
http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=4160
<http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=4160> 

 

I believe this is my first post on CodeTalk -- for those who don't know
from BOAF postings, I'm a consultant to the Florida Division of
Emergency Management's flood management office (I'm also a consultant to
FEMA on the flood provisions of the International Code Series).  

 

And I never miss an opportunity to remind folks about FEMA's NFIP
Technical Bulletins

http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/floodplain/techbul.shtm

 

Rebecca C. Quinn, CFM

RCQuinn Consulting, Inc.

104 4th St NE #2

Charlottesville VA 22902

434-296-1349 (voice)

443-398-5005 (cell)

320-514-3513 (FAX)

 

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:18:36 -0500
From: "Tim Lynch" <TimL at jupiter.fl.us>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 41
To: "Bob Koning" <Bob at ContractorsInstitute.com>, "Bret"
	<bretwalley at yahoo.com>, <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID:
	<C78DD774C8011D4DA499152951EBBA5E05A99658 at MERLIN.jupiter.fl.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Correct. FBC- Existing would determine the level of compliance required.
 
Prior to adoption of FBC, a number of jurisdictions used the "50% rule"
across the board.
 

Tim Lynch 
Town of Jupiter Building Department 
210 Military Trail, Jupiter Fl. 33458 
561 741 2469 
561 741 0911 (fax) 
Timl at jupiter.fl.us 

 

________________________________

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Koning
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:51 PM
To: Bret; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 41



Bret, I am not aware that if you are doing a job that exceeds 50% of the
value it has to brought up to the code - my experience is that is
applicable to FEMA regulations alone. Can you provide me with the code
references or requirements if I am wrong?

 

 

Cordially,

 

R.J.Koning - Director

Contractors Institute

rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com

8301 Joliet Street

Hudson, Fl 34667

727-863-5147

 

 

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Bret
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:19 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 41

 

>From my understanding when doing a job that is 50% or more of the
assessed value of the building the whole house will have to be brought
up to current code, this is also a FEMA law and that includes raising
the elevation if the FFE is not high enough and the work can not be
staged to get around this.

 

So I think the roof will have to be brought up to current code as well
as all other items in the house that do not meet current code.

 

This may also affect setbacks as well.

 

On Mechanical contractors doing electrical work work it is my
understanding we are allowe dto change out breakers, disconnects, whips
wire from the disconnect to the unit, byt we can change out a breaker
for say a water heater, or other equipment that is not running the
mechanical equipment we are working and and we can not run new circuits
to equipment.

 

Bret Walley

CBC059520

CAC1816055
 
--- On Wed, 1/19/11, codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com
<codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com> wrote:

	
	From: codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com
<codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com>
	Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 65, Issue 41
	To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
	Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 7:30 PM

	Send CodeTalk mailing list submissions to
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	When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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	Today's Topics:
	
	   1. Code Talk (Paul Marchese)
	   2. Re: Code Talk (Maciejko, Joseph S)
	   3. Re: [boafdiscussion] Mechanical Contractors Performing
	      Electrical Work (afcf at tampabay.rr.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=afcf@tampabay.rr.com> )
	   4. Re: Code Talk (WR290 at aol.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=WR290@aol.com> )
	
	
	
----------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	Message: 1
	Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:17:15 -0500
	From: "Paul Marchese" <paul at keepersofthecastle.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul@keepersofthecastle.co
m> >
	Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Code Talk
	To: <CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CodeTalk@myfloridacode.com
> >
	Message-ID: <006301cbb81e$418c3b30$c4a4b190$@com>
	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
	
	I am estimating a job that was damaged by fire, the fire damage
is well over
	the 50% of the county assessed value. Sarasota County
	
	
	
	- All of the windows and doors have been damaged and need to be
replaced. Do
	they need to be replaced to the current code.  
	
	
	
	-The skylights are all damaged and need to be replaced. Assuming
that they
	need to be impact units. When replacing them it will involve 
	
	  Some work to be done on the roof. The roof is a flat roof and
holding
	water. If I do any repairs to the roof will I need to bring that
to code.
	
	
	
	-I am concerned that by doing over 50% of the value the county
will make me
	bring the entire home up to the current building code. I need to

	
	  Know going into the process.
	
	
	
	I look forward to getting your input
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
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	Message: 2
	Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:35:04 -0500
	From: "Maciejko, Joseph S" <Joseph.Maciejko at brevardcounty.us
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Joseph.Maciejko@brevardcou
nty.us> >
	Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Code Talk
	To: "Paul Marchese" <paul at keepersofthecastle.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul@keepersofthecastle.co
m> >,
	    <CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CodeTalk@myfloridacode.com
> >
	Message-ID:
	
<D507BFA904F32440A5190DDBA476747D0D2D731D at EOCEXVS01.brevardco.int
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=D507BFA904F32440A5190DDBA4
76747D0D2D731D at EOCEXVS01.brevardco.int> >
	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
	
	Windows and doors installed must meet current code, wind design
pressure
	for location and possibly shutters or impact rating if in a
location
	over 120mph wind speed. Plywood per 2007 FBC can satisfy the
shutter
	requirement.
	
	
	
	Skylights must meet same code as windows and doors. Roof repairs
related
	to that change out should not be a problem. A replacement roof
must meet
	code per the 2007 Existing Building Code.
	
	
	
	I would review the Existing Building Code and determine if
Repair or
	what level of Alterations,1,2 or 3. Percentages are discussed in
that
	section.
	
	
	
	You may also want to contact Zoning to discuss percentages and
value.
	
	
	
	
	
	From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=codetalk-bounces@myflorida
code.com> 
	[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=codetalk-bounces@myflorida
code.com> ] On Behalf Of Paul Marchese
	Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:17 PM
	To: CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CodeTalk@myfloridacode.com
> 
	Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Code Talk
	
	
	
	I am estimating a job that was damaged by fire, the fire damage
is well
	over the 50% of the county assessed value. Sarasota County
	
	
	
	- All of the windows and doors have been damaged and need to be
	replaced. Do they need to be replaced to the current code.  
	
	
	
	-The skylights are all damaged and need to be replaced. Assuming
that
	they need to be impact units. When replacing them it will
involve 
	
	  Some work to be done on the roof. The roof is a flat roof and
holding
	water. If I do any repairs to the roof will I need to bring that
to
	code.
	
	
	
	-I am concerned that by doing over 50% of the value the county
will make
	me bring the entire home up to the current building code. I need
to 
	
	  Know going into the process.
	
	
	
	I look forward to getting your input
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	Under Florida Law, email addresses are Public Records. If you do
	not want your e-mail address released in response to public
record
	requests, do not send electronic mail to this entity.  Instead,
	contact this office by phone or in writing.
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	Message: 3
	Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:21:59 -0500
	From: <afcf at tampabay.rr.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=afcf@tampabay.rr.com> >
	Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] [boafdiscussion] Mechanical
	    Contractors Performing Electrical Work
	To: Bob Koning <Bob at contractorsinstitute.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Bob@contractorsinstitute.c
om> >
	Cc: CodeTalk <codetalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=codetalk@myfloridacode.com
> >
	Message-ID: <20110120002200.30YA9.205578.root at hrndva-web15-z02>
	Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
	
	I agree with everything Bob says. One other point you were
asking Brian is how different juristictions handle this. In my
experiance it is pretty much ignored. I'm an A/C contractor and have
never had a building official question who installed the new disconnect
or circuit breaker. In one case I was working under a GC and performed a
package unit change-out. The GC ran the power himself and told the
building inspector so. The inspector never batted an eye. Many A/C
contractors do this work themselves to stay competative. $15.00 for a
breaker or pay an electrician to come change it. The customer pays more
or the contractor following the rules looses the job. I am not condoning
these violations, just giving a little insite. The next best thing to a
good electrician on the job site is a good A/C tech.
	
	---- Bob Koning <Bob at contractorsinstitute.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Bob@contractorsinstitute.c
om> > wrote: 
	> Brian, That is what we have been teaching for over 20
years...... You
	> are correct. Do I think the A/C contractor should be able to
replace the
	> disconnect? Yes - Replace the Circuit Breakers on the feed?
Yes. - Are
	> they allowed to? No.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Cordially,
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> R.J.Koning - Director
	> 
	> Contractors Institute
	> 
	> rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rjkoning@contractorsinstit
ute.com> 
	> 
	> 8301 Joliet Street
	> 
	> Hudson, Fl 34667
	> 
	> 727-863-5147
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> From: Bryan Holland [mailto:bholland at cityofnorthport.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bholland@cityofnorthport.c
om> ] 
	> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 6:40 AM
	> To: Building Officials Association of Florida, Inc.
	> Cc: CodeTalk
	> Subject: [boafdiscussion] Mechanical Contractors Performing
Electrical
	> Work
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Good Morning Group,
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> FS 489.105(3)(f)(g)&(i) states the following for a Class "A"
	> Air-Conditioning Contractor, Class "B" Air-Conditioning
Contractor, and
	> Mechanical Contractor:
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> "to replace, disconnect, or reconnect power wiring on the load
side of
	> the dedicated existing electrical disconnect switch; to
install,
	> disconnect, and reconnect low voltage heating, ventilating,
and
	> air-conditioning control wiring"
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Based on this language, can a contractor licensed under one of
these
	> categories perform the following work without an ECLB license:
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> 1.                  Replace branch-circuit panelboard circuit
breakers
	> supplying a/c equipment
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> 2.                  Extend, alter or replace branch circuit
wiring on
	> the LINE side of equipment disconnecting means
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> 3.                  Repair or replace disconnect switches
and/or
	> disconnect enclosures
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> So for example, on a typical complete HVAC mechanical
change-out on a
	> single-family dwelling, the a/c contractor:
	> 
	>             
	> 
	> 1.      Replaces the electric "whip" to the outside condensing
/ heat
	> pump unit. 
	> 
	> 2.      Replaces the electric disconnect for the outside a/c
unit.
	> 
	> 3.      Replaces the circuit breakers supplying both the
Air-Handler and
	> A/C units at the dwelling branch-circuit panelboard.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Based on the language in the statute, it appears only #1 above
is work
	> permitted under the scope of the license.  And technically, #2
and #3
	> would require an ECLB license.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> How do your jurisdictions handle this issue and do you publish
any
	> guidelines regarding this matter?
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Thanks in advance for any comments or opinions.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Have a wonderful day.
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Take care and be safe, 
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> Bryan P. Holland
	> 
	> City of North Port
	> 
	> 4970 City Hall Blvd.
	> 
	> North Port, Florida 34286
	> 
	> (941) 429-7053
	> 
	> bholland at cityofnorthport.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bholland@cityofnorthport.c
om>  <mailto:bholland at cityofnorthport.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bholland@cityofnorthport.c
om> > 
	> 
	>  
	> 
	>  
	> 
	> ________________________________
	> 
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	> 
	
	
	
	------------------------------
	
	Message: 4
	Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:30:02 EST
	From: WR290 at aol.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=WR290@aol.com> 
	Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Code Talk
	To: Joseph.Maciejko at brevardcounty.us
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Joseph.Maciejko@brevardcou
nty.us> , paul at keepersofthecastle.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paul@keepersofthecastle.co
m> ,
	    CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CodeTalk@myfloridacode.com
> 
	Message-ID: <47c04.2832b91d.3a68dc0a at aol.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=47c04.2832b91d.3a68dc0a@ao
l.com> >
	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
	
	
	Sarasota is mostly in the wind borne debris area. I would say
yes. 
	
	Tom Ricci
	
	
	
	In a message dated 1/19/2011 4:35:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

	Joseph.Maciejko at brevardcounty.us
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Joseph.Maciejko@brevardcou
nty.us>  writes:
	
	
	Windows and doors installed  must meet current code, wind design
pressure 
	for location and possibly  shutters or impact rating if in a
location over 
	120mph wind speed. Plywood per  2007 FBC can satisfy the shutter
requirement. 
	Skylights must meet same code  as windows and doors. Roof
repairs related 
	to that change out should not be a  problem. A replacement roof
must meet 
	code per the 2007 Existing Building  Code. 
	I would review the Existing  Building Code and determine if
Repair or what 
	level of Alterations,1,2 or 3.  Percentages are discussed in
that section. 
	You may also want to contact  Zoning to discuss percentages and
value. 
	
	
	From:  codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=codetalk-bounces@myflorida
code.com>  
	[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=codetalk-bounces@myflorida
code.com> ]  On Behalf Of Paul Marchese
	Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011  4:17 PM
	To: CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
<http://us.mc453.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CodeTalk@myfloridacode.com
> 
	Subject: [Florida  Code Talk] Code Talk
	
	I am estimating a job that was damaged by fire, the fire  damage
is well 
	over the 50% of the county assessed value. Sarasota  County 
	- All of the windows and doors have been damaged and need  to be
replaced. 
	Do they need to be replaced to the current code.   
	-The skylights are all damaged and need to be replaced.
Assuming that they 
	need to be impact units. When replacing them it will  involve  
	Some work to be done on the roof. The roof is a  flat roof and
holding 
	water. If I do any repairs to the roof will I need to  bring
that to code. 
	-I am concerned that by doing over 50% of the value the  county
will make 
	me bring the entire home up to the current building code. I
need to  
	Know going into the process. 
	I look forward to getting your input 
	
	Under Florida Law, email  addresses are Public Records. If you
do not want 
	your e-mail address released  in response to public record
requests, do not 
	send electronic mail to this  entity. Instead, contact this
office by phone 
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