MyFloridaCode.com

Is that same code in the ICC?
If so perhaps some residential pull-down ladder manufacturers have an ICC or 
UL approval?

glen
MAST DRAFTING AND DESIGN


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Koning" <Bob at ContractorsInstitute.com>
To: <marquisconst at aol.com>; <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14


>I believe it is. I think it would have more burn time than 1/2" drywall
>
>
> R.J.Koning - Director
> Contractors Institute
> rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com
> 8301 Joliet Street
> Hudson, Fl 34667
> 727-863-5147
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
> [mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of
> marquisconst at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:06 AM
> To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14
>
> I don't think sheetmetal is a fire barier?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com
> To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Sent: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:41 pm
> Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14
>
>
>
> Send CodeTalk mailing list submissions to
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>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Questionable call by Building official (WR290 at aol.com)
>   2. Re: Questionable call by Building official (WR290 at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:38:45 EDT
> From: WR290 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
>    official
> To: dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com, gyantorn at scgov.net,
>    pathoag at cfl.rr.com, jcoughlin at englehomes.com, FineR at gtlaw.com,
>    noleball at hotmail.com,   codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Message-ID: <bea.3de02de0.374c2395 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Hi Dale
>
> Missed you last weekend. Hope all is well.
>
> Relating to your post. The plain language R309.2 does not mention fire
> protection, only separation, to the ceiling of a garage unless there is
> a
> habitable area above.  Although we do know that 1/2 GWB is 20 minute.
> That is
> why the interpretation from BOAF states No.
>
> See below
>
>>From BOAF Informal Interpretation
>
> Question:
>
> Is it the intent of R309.1 and R309.2 to be applied to attic accesses
> in
> garages with relation to a fire rating?
> Answer:
> No. The requirement is  for separation as stipulated, not a fire rated
> assembly. The attic access  closure
> would need to be equivalent to 1/2 inch gyp board, or in the case  where
>
> there is a habitable area above the
> ceiling, 5/8 inch Type X gyp board  (where the ceiling is used to
> provide
> the separation).
> Commentary:
> Section  309.1 addresses openings between the garage and the residence.
> Section 309.2  establish
> es the
> separation requirement between the garage and the attic. 1/2  inch
> gypsum
> is allowed.
>
>
> In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:02:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com writes:
>
> I'm  unclear as to the installation of the ladder. Is it a fixed ladder
> through the  scuttle hole creating a penetration of the ceiling
> assembly?
> R309.2 requires  ceiling protection of 1/2 " gdw on the ceiling and if
> its a
> floor/ceiling  assembly,( with habitable space above) it must be 5/8
> type "X'.
> If the ladder  and scuttle create a penetration through the ceiling
> envelope,
> it must be  protected in some manner.
> Most pull-down attic ladders are not fire-rated  but a layer of
> sheet-metal
> or drywall applied to the bottom side is usually  accepted.
>
> Dale Lee,CBO
> Bay Harbor Islands
>
> -----Original  Message-----
>>From: WR290 at aol.com
>>Sent: May 23, 2009 3:26  PM
>>To: gyantorn at scgov.net, pathoag at cfl.rr.com,  jcoughlin at englehomes.com,
> FineR at gtlaw.com, noleball at hotmail.com,  codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>
>>I think he said  he discussed it with the BO because he might want to
> be
> one
>> in the  future,
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>a message dated  5/23/2009 3:23:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>gyantorn at scgov.net  writes:
>>
>>This  issue is getting out of hand. Discuss with  the BO and inspector.
>
> You
>>may be  suprised.
>>
>>-----  Original Message -----
>>From:   codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>>To:  WR290 at aol.com  <WR290 at aol.com>; jcoughlin at englehomes.com
>><jcoughlin at englehomes.com>; FineR at gtlaw.com  <FineR at gtlaw.com>;
> noleball at hotmail.com
>><noleball at hotmail.com>; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>>Sent: Sat May 23 15:15:06   2009
>>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by  Building
> official
>>
>>Your backing down does nothing but to  propagate the problem  state
> wide.
>>
>>-----Original  Message-----
>>From:   codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>>[mailto:codetalk-bounc
> es at myfloridacode.com]   On Behalf Of WR290 at aol.com
>>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:32  PM
>>To:  jcoughlin at englehomes.com; FineR at gtlaw.com;   noleball at hotmail.com;
>>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject: Re:  [Florida  Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>
>>I absolutely  understand.
>>
>>This is purely a business decision.  If he want  to  take this official
>
> on.
>>He will not get a CO, His bank will  keep  charging for extensions of
> his
>>loan. Assuming he has  a loan. And  probably 2 years down the road he
> might
>>get
>>this issue done. What I see  is FR paint and a GFCI > The  total cost
> is
>>less
>>
>>than 100.00.
>>
>>I have been down this road and it is not pretty. Not to  mention that
> this
>>person is a contractor. I assume he will  want to continue to  work
> with
> this
>>
>>building department.
>>
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>In a  message dated  5/23/2009 2:21:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>jcoughlin at englehomes.com writes:
>>
>>The  problem with  rolling  over when you are right and the inspector
> won't
>>listen  is  sort of  like a dog humping your leg. If you let the dog
> hump
>>you,
>>
>>he  always  will and you will be his  biatch.
>>
>>Go to the BO first, then  get BIA  involved.  This will work 95% of the
>
> time.
>>
>>Rolling over is  NOT  an   Option.
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From:   WR290 at aol.com
>>To: Jay Coughlin; FineR at gtlaw.com ;   noleball at hotmail.com ;
>>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Sent:  Sat May  23 14:16:18 2009
>>Subject: Re:  [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call  by Building
> official
>
>>
>>
>>Charles:
>>
>>I was not going to  chime  in on this.This is a  common happening. You
> can
>>do
>>one of  two  things. Take a recorder with you and  tell him you are
>>recording
>>his  comments, send his comments along with  a  complaint to DBPR. Or
> you
>>can
>>just make the  repairs and go one with life. I  would absolutly
> recommend
>
>>the second option.
>>
>>Tom Ricci CBO
>>BT   Builders  Inc
>>
>>In a message dated 5/21/2009 8:44:12 A.M.  Eastern Daylight   Time,
>>jcoughlin at englehom
> es.com  writes:
>>
>>This is typical of   some rouge inspectors.  Call the CBO and it goes
> away
>>if not  in book,  can be  resolved in one day normally.
>>
>>-----Original   Message-----
>>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]   On Behalf Of
> FineR at gtlaw.com
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009  7:55   PM
>>To: noleball at hotmail.com;   codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject:  Re: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>(This is not  intended to be legal advice)
>>
>>If it were  me, and my  county had a board of rules and appeals, I
> would
>>file an   appeal.  In my experience, the filing of  an appeal is enough
>
> to
>>lead to a discussion that frequently  resolves the matter  without  the
>>hearing being  necessary.  And if it  doesn't get resolved,  you have a
> set
>>date by which the matter  will be resolved.    If  your county  does
> not
>>have  such a board, you can use the binding   interpretation process in
>
> Fla
>>Stat 553.775 which is very  fast.
>>
>>Good  luck
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>Robert S. Fine,  Esq.,   AIA
>>
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>>--
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>>
>>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>>To:    codetalk at myfloridacode.com <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>>Sent: Wed  May  20 19:35:05 2009
>>Subject: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable call by  Building official
>>
>>
>>
>>I  am trying to obtain a C.O. for a   residence we have completed and
> the
>>building official has  taken some  liberties with his  judgement.  I
>>usually try  to do what is asked  of me by  the building officials as I
>>will  likely be one one day but   this one is taking it a bit far.
>>
>>
>>
>>We have  installed an   attic ladder (aluminum ladder) in the garage
> and
>>the  inspector  refuses to issue a C.O. until the attic  ladder and
> hatch
>>is painted with  fire resistant paint.   Further, he insists that  we
>>install GFCI  receptacles in the  dining room (not kitchen)  which is
> not
>>required by  the  N.E.C. or the Florida Building  Code.  I took the
> book
> to
>>him  and asked for him to show  it to me and he said that  it is not in
>
> the
>>Code but it is in  "his code" and it is  what he wants to  see.  He
> insists
>>that the house will not  pass until the hatch is  painted with fire
>>retardant paint and the  recepatcles in the dining room  (not kitchen)
>
> are
>>changed.
>>
>>
>>
>>To make matters worse,  he  is the electrical inpector  for the
>>jurisdiction and is  not licensed  to do any other  inspections.  Does
>>anyone  have any suggestions  on this  one?  Soem of you are  building
>>officials on here and  may  be able to help me  out.
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles   Walker
>>
>>CW  Building Contractor, inc
>>
>>CBC  1250992    CCC 1325996 CFC 1427782
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Windows   Live(tm): Keep your life in   sync.
>>http://windowslive.
> com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
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>>
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>>
>>
>>________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:40:27 EDT
> From: WR290 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
>    official
> To: WR290 at aol.com, dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com, gyantorn at scgov.net,
>    pathoag at cfl.rr.com, jcoughlin at englehomes.com, FineR at gtlaw.com,
>    noleball at hotmail.com, codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Message-ID: <cdc.4bdb0b26.374c23fb at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> In a message dated 5/25/2009 12:38:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, WR290
>
> writes:
>
> Hi Dale
>
> Missed you last weekend. Hope all is well.
>
> Relating to your post. The plain language R309.2 does not mention fire
> protection, only separation, to the ceiling of a garage unless there is
> a
> habitable area above.  Although we do know that 1/2 GWB is 20  minute.
> That is
> why the interpretation from BOAF states No.
>
> See below
>
>>From BOAF Informal Interpretatio
> n
>
> Question:
>
> Is it the intent of R309.1 and R309.2 to be applied to attic accesses
> in
> garages with relation to a fire rating?
> Answer:
> No. The requirement  is for separation as stipulated, not a fire rated
> assembly. The attic access  closure would need to be equivalent to 1/2
> inch gyp
> board, or in the case  where there is a habitable area above the
> ceiling,
> 5/8 inch Type X gyp board  (where the ceiling is used to provide the
> separation).
>
>
>
>
>
> Commentary:
> Section 309.1 addresses openings between the garage  and the residence.
> Section 309.2 establishes the separation requirement  between the garage
> and
> the attic. 1/2 inch gypsum is  allowed.
>
>
> Tom Ricci
> BT Builders Inc
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:02:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com writes:
>
> I'm  unclear as to the installation of the ladder. Is it a fixed ladder
> through  the scuttle hole creating a penetration of the ceiling
> assembly?
> R309.2  requires ceiling protection of 1/2 " gdw on the ceiling and if
> its a
> floor/ceiling assembly,( with habitable space above) it must be 5/8 type
> "X'.
> If the ladder and scuttle create a penetration through the ceiling
> envelope, it must be protected in some manner.
> Most pull-down attic  ladders are not fire-rated but a layer of
> sheet-metal
> or drywall applied to  the bottom side is usually accepted.
>
> Dale Lee,CBO
> Bay Harbor  Islands
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From:  WR290 at aol.com
>>Sent: May 23, 2009 3:26 PM
>>To:  gyantorn at scgov.net, pathoag at cfl.rr.com, jcoughlin at englehomes.com,
>
> FineR at gtlaw.com, noleball at hotmail.com,  codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>
>>I think he  said he discussed it with the BO because he might want to
> be
> one
>> in  the future,
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>a message dated  5/23/2009 3:23:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>gyantorn at scgov.net writes:
>>
>>This  issue is  getting out of hand. Discuss with the BO and inspector.
>
> You
>>may  be  surprised.
>>
>>----- Original Message  -----
>>From:  co
> detalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>>To:  WR290 at aol.com  <WR290 at aol.com>; jcoughlin at englehomes.com
>><jcoughlin at englehomes.com>; FineR at gtlaw.com  <FineR at gtlaw.com>;
> noleball at hotmail.com
>><noleball at hotmail.com>; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>>Sent: Sat May 23 15:15:06   2009
>>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by  Building
> official
>>
>>Your backing down does nothing but to  propagate the problem  state
> wide.
>>
>>-----Original  Message-----
>>From:   codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]   On Behalf Of
> WR290 at aol.com
>>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:32  PM
>>To:  jcoughlin at englehomes.com; FineR at gtlaw.com;   noleball at hotmail.com;
>>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject: Re:  [Florida  Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>
>>I absolutely  understand.
>>
>>This is purely a business decision.  If he want   to take this official
>
> on.
>>He will not get a CO, His bank will  keep  charging for extensions of
> his
>>loan. Assuming he  has a loan. And  probably 2 years down the road he
> might
>>get
>>this issue done. What I see  is FR paint and a GFCI > The  total cost
> is
>>less
>>
>>than 100.00.
>>
>>I have been down this road and it is not pretty. Not to  mention that
> this
>>person is a contractor. I assume he  will want to continue to  work
> with
> this
>>
>>building  department.
>>
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>In a   message dated 5/23/2009 2:21:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>jcoughlin at englehomes.com writes:
>>
>>The  problem  with rolling  over when you are right and the inspector
> won't
>>listen is  sort of  like a dog humping your leg. If you  let the dog
> hump
>>you,
>>
>>he  always  will and  you will be his biatch.
>>
>>Go to the BO first, then  get  BIA  involved. This will work 95% of the
>
> time.
>>
>>Rolling  over is  NOT an   Option.
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From:   WR290 at aol.com
>>To: Jay Coughlin; FineR at gtlaw.com ;   noleball at hotmail.com ;
>>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Sent:
> Sat May  23 14:16:18 2009
>>Subject: Re:   [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call  by Building
> official
>
>>
>>
>>Charles:
>>
>>I was not going to   chime in on this.This is a  common happening. You
> can
>>do
>>one of two  things. Take a recorder with you and  tell him  you are
>>recording
>>his  comments, send his comments  along with a  complaint to DBPR. Or
> you
>>can
>>just  make the repairs and go one with life. I  would absolutly
> recommend
>>the second option.
>>
>>Tom Ricci  CBO
>>BT  Builders  Inc
>>
>>In a message dated  5/21/2009 8:44:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight   Time,
>>jcoughlin at englehomes.com writes:
>>
>>This is typical  of   some rouge inspectors. Call the CBO and it goes
> away
>>if not  in book,  can be resolved in one day  normally.
>>
>>-----Original   Message-----
>>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]   On Behalf Of
> FineR at gtlaw.com
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009  7:55   PM
>>To: noleball at hotmail.com;   codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>>Subject:  Re: [Florida Code  Talk]  Questionable call by Building
> official
>>
>>(This is not intended to be legal advice)
>>
>>If it were  me, and my county had a board of rules and  appeals, I
> would
>>file an  appeal.  In my experience,  the filing of  an appeal is enough
> to
>>lead to a discussion  that frequently  resolves the matter without  the
>>hearing  being  necessary.  And if it doesn't get resolved,  you have
> a
> set
>>date by which the matter will be resolved.     If  your county  does
> not
>>have such a board, you can use  the binding   interpretation process in
> Fla
>>Stat 553.775  which is very  fast.
>>
>>Good  luck
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>Robert S. Fine,  Esq.,   AIA
>>
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>>--
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>>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>>To:    codetalk at myfloridacode.com <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>>Sent:  Wed May  20 19:35:05 2009
>>Subject: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable call by  Building  official
>>
>>
>>
>>I am trying to obtain a C.O. for  a   residence we have completed and
> the
>>building official  has  taken some  liberties with his judgement.   I
>>usually try  to do what is asked  of me by the building  officials as I
>>will  likely be one one day but  this one is  taking it a bit far.
>>
>>
>>
>>We have installed  an   attic ladder (aluminum ladder) in the garage
> and
>>the  inspector  refuses to issue a C.O. until the attic  ladder and
> hatch
>>is painted with  fire resistant paint.   Further, he insists that  we
>>install GFCI  receptacles in  the dining room (not kitchen)  which is
> not
>>required by   the N.E.C. or the Florida Building  Code.  I took the
> book
> to
>>him  and asked for him to show  it to me and he said  that it is not in
>
> the
>>Code but it is in  "his code" and it  is what he wants to  see.  He
> insists
>>that the house will  not pass until the hatch is  painted with
> fire
>>retardant paint  and the recepatcles in the dining room  (not kitchen)
>
> are
>>changed.
>>
>>
>>
>>To make matters worse,  he  is the electrical inpector  for the
>>jurisdiction and is  not licensed  to do any other  inspections.   Does
>>anyone have any suggestions  on this  one?  Some  of you are building
>>officials on here and  may  be able to  help me out.
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles   Walker
>>
>>CW  Building Contractor, inc
>>
>>CBC  1250992    CCC 1325996 CFC 1427782
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Windows   Live(tm): Keep your life in   sync.
>>http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
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