MyFloridaCode.com

You misunderstood what I was attempting to say, which is, you can't apply a
"decorative cementitous coating" as defined in the FBC over wood. I DIDN"T
say you can't apply stucco over wood. 

The contractor in original question is maintaining that what he applied over
wood framing is a decorative cementitous coating, not stucco, and therefore
doesn't have to meet code requirements for stucco. 

Mark Cramer
Mark Cramer Inspection Services, Inc.
492 20th Ave. 
Indian Rocks Beach, FL 33785
727-595-4211
http://www.BestTampaInspector.com


-----Original Message-----
From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Chandler Knowles
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:07 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Cementitious Finish

Sorry, but I beg to differ.  You can't SUPPORT concrete or masonry with 
wood -- only masonry, concrete or steel.  But stucco is not a structural 
element.

Cement stucco is applied all the time over wood framed walls on metal lath. 
Stucco is exterior plaster.  Unfortunately, there is not as much in the 
Codes as there is in manuals of good practice.  I always reference the 
standards (and suggestions) of the Portland Cement Association for stucco on

plans and in contracts.  BTW, EIFS is not stucco.

I don't use OSB or Tyvex/housewrap for, what I believe to be, good reasons 
so I think the basics of your problem start there (only plywood and 
asphaltic felt or a butyl based peel and stick).  If the house isn't 
moisture proof before the stucco goes on, it won't be after the stucco is 
applied.

The most "dangerous" areas of a stucco job are the openings in the walls and

where it joins dissimilar surfaces.  These places have to be handled 
properly or the system will leak.  I wouldn't dream of using cement stucco 
without using expansion joints and other stucco accessories but their 
placement requires some consideration and it is difficult to have hard and 
fast rules for locations.  A general rule is no more than 600 SF without 
expansion joints.  The lath at opening corners must be butterfly reinforced 
or cracks will happen there too.

There is a lot of ignorance in our industry about cement products of all 
kinds and stucco is right up there at the top of the list.

Chandler Knowles
Construction Manager
Pensacola, FL


.  ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Cramer" <mcramer1 at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'codetalk'" <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Cementitious Finish


> You can't apply a decorative cementitous finish over wood framing. Only 
> over
> masonry.
>
>>From the 2001 code: DECORATIVE CEMENTITIOUS COATING. A skim coat, as 
>>defined
> in ASTM C 926,
> of portland cement based plaster applied to concrete or masonry surfaces
> intended for cosmetic purposes.
>
>
> BOAF interpretations:
>
> BOAF #2290
> Date: Fri Feb 28 2003
> Report #: 2290
> Code: Building
> Section: 2504
> Question:
> Is it the intent of 2504, by its reference to ASTM C926 - Table 1, to
> require 7/8" thickness, for stucco
> applied over wood framing, even if elastomeric paint is applied on top of
> the stucco?
> Answer:
> Yes, and it is required to be three coat work.
> Commentary:
> ASTM C926 is the application standard for stucco, with or without an
> elastomeric paint topcoat.
>
>
> BOAF Report #: 4198
> Code: Building
> Section: R703.1, R703.6
> Question:
> Is it the intent of sections R703.1, 703.6 and the 2005 Supplement section
> 703.11 to disallow Decorative
> Cementitious Coatings other than official cement plaster (stucco) compling
> with ASTM C 926?
> Answer:
> Decorative Cementitious Coatings, as defined in Section R202, are skim 
> coats
> and would not meet any of
> the standards found in 703.1 or Table 703.11 of the 2005 Supplement.
> Commentary:
> The building official may accept the manufacturer's specifications and
> installation instructions for other
> coatings provided they are equivalent (or greater) in weather resistance 
> to
> those items specified.
>
>
> It's stucco. Even if it wasn't, it's a moot point as it's failed to keep
> water out of the wall.
>
>
> Mark Cramer
> Mark Cramer Inspection Services, Inc.
> 492 20th Ave.
> Indian Rocks Beach, FL 33785
> 727-595-4211
> http://www.BestTampaInspector.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
> [mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Jack Wingo
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:20 PM
> To: codetalk
> Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Cementitious Finish
>
> Hello To All,
> A 2 story house built in 2002 after the 2001 FBC became effective.
> First floor walls are poured concrete and second floor walls are frame
> with OSB sub-siding, Tyvek, wire lath with an under coating of what
> appears to be 1 or 2 coats of plaster.  Both 1st and 2nd floor walls
> have what appears to be a stucco finish, that was painted.  The 2nd
> floor walls have no expansion joints and no weep screed.  The homeowners
> have complainted to the builder about water intrusion from wind driven
> rains.  After tropical storm Fay, stalled in our area for several day,
> while dumping several inches of rain, the homeowner removed some
> sections of drywall on the 2nd floor exterior walls.  There is extension
> water damage to the sub-siding and damage to some wall studs.
> During a meeting with the builder and the homeowner, I handed the
> builder a copy of code 2504.2 Exterior Lathing and Plastering, a copy of
> ASTM C 926 and ASTM C 1063, and some pages from the Portland Cement
> Association's "Plaster/Stucco Manuel".  The builder stated he was not
> obligated to the ASTM requirements because he applied a decorative
> cementitious finish in lieu of stucco.  I ask for the name of
> manufacturer, but he refused to provide that information.  He simply
> stated he was not require to install expansion joints and weep screed,
> although he is now on homes he is presently building.
> My questions include, what or who determines if a product is stucco or
> decorative cementitious finish and no matter what the exterior finish
> may be, wouldn't the requirements of expansion joints and weep creed,
> still be required?
> Your assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> Jack Wingo
> Melbourne Beach, FL
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